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Author Topic: 1st wedding shoot Aug. 9th. So let's break it down......  (Read 1656 times)
damian
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« on: August 11, 2008, 02:05:50 PM »

So, I'll start by saying:

I learned alot, and I'm extremely excited about the future!


So, where to begin.  I'm gonna just go through the day.  Please read, and please respond!

____________________________________________________________________________________


The equipment list we ended up with for wedding #1

(2) Sony Vx2000's with low hours each
(1) Samsung "best buy" camera
(1) 70" basic best buy "pro" tripod
(1) Bogen/Manfrotto 503 HDV fluid head w/ bogen/man tripod 70" or so (approx. 650.00 package..partner bought it)
(1) Flycam setup (glidecam)
(1) Sony minidisc recorder using the azden wms pro handheld mic)
(1) Azden WMS Pro wireless mic setup
(2) Sony 10w/20w lights using sony batteries
(1) Marantz 660


Just as a note, we did attend the rehearsal, and all seemed well.  Audio guy was ready, we were clear on all activities.  The photographers didn't come to the rehearsal, and the bride said they had shot there before and that was why.


Day begins at the church 12:00pm:

We arrive, equipment in hand, and immediately start setting up audio.  My partner breaks out the minidisc, and attaches the azden mic by rubber band to the pulpit (readers location), while I take the marantz to the church coordinator.

Turns out the audio guy isn't showing up, and they are clueless to hook up the marantz.  They don't want to be bothered, but do say their system will burn a cd of all the church audio.  So I accept that offer, and with that figure, that's one backup down.

I then setup and balance my glidecam, and start getting some outside shots.  At about that time the photogs show up.  They avoid us for the mostpart and start shooting their stuff.  The one is pretty rude, and likes making comments under his breath (we had a word later that ended all that  Kiss ).  So, i take the initiative and go to the head photog and introduce my partner and I.  I offer that I want to be coordinated with him, and he merely states "he'll be up front".  I tell him that the priest very specifically said after the candle lighting, everyone goes in back.  He's knows nothing (surprise! you didn't come to the rehearsal, imagine that).

So, we go about our business.  I catch the limo's delivering the bride and her peeps, then the groom and his.  The bridal room SUCKS!!  It's horribly decorated, no windows, no nice furniture, a SINK!  Everything else in the church is on lockdown.  I'm HIGHLY disappointed that I truly ended up with just about nothing in shooting her.  I got some interaction between her and the bridesmaids, and caught some of the photography session, but it straight up sucked.

During that time, via wireless comm., my partner is getting guests coming in, seating, etc.

I then head over to the groom, and find them FINALLY.  They are in the priests study, which is a WRECK!  Once again, back in a hallway, no rooms opened, no opened areas, very cramped.  Once again...I got squat! 

Aggravated, I grab the best man and demand some ring action.  I find a piano that's got a dark stain, and do some things with my light and a tripod'd cam.  Then, before I know it, it's 15 minutes til start.

I glidecam some shots going through the hosts into the church area.  I then move to the front and get the parents and grandparents getting sat.  Stuff begins, and I share the front with the photog.  We stay out of each others way, and I glidecam it all, with my partner at the end of the center aisle getting from the back.  The third cam is tripod'd at the left of the alter facing the kneeler where the bride and groom will be.

All goes well, and I move to the back.  My partner moves more center aisle, while I have a safe shot.  He stays tripod'd and has the grooms wireless fed to his cam.  I move around the back getting various shots, and closeups.  My partner isn't very good at shooting at all, so he basically just stood behind his camera and got the safe shot.

I shoot the entire thing tripod'd but moving around, but then at communion switch (and rebalance glidecam) JUST in time for the rose at the blessed mother.  This is in a remote area of the church, and I am on it.  The photog is running across the back of the church because he didn't know it was coming.  Grin 

From there, I glidecam walking backwards in front of them as they walk out.  Some receiving action happens, while my partner is tripod'd high on a bench, and I glidecam close to them.

We head back inside for pictures.  I glide around, but the photog controls that deal.  I get what I can, but no attention is paid to me.  I just grab what's happening during the process, then sweep in front of them between poses.

The end of that

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

The photography location

We get to the photography location and I am gliding around, while my partner captures the scene from tripod.  The bride is VERY happy with us so far.  She grabs me and says how thrilled she is, and how the entire wedding party is amazed we've brought so much energy to the event.

Once again, the photog runs this deal and I glide around.  I capture alot of funny comments, alot of bridal party fun, and alot of poses while they get shot by the photog.  No poses are done specifically for me.  This is something I have to get opinions on.  I want some love for my camera, but just have to figure out how/when to go after it when the photog dominates this process.

Anyway, I get what I can and we split.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Reception- Sheraton Grand Ballroom

We arrive there, and immediately get with the DJ.  My partner bought, and has been in possession of the Marantz.  I've handled booking our weddings, producing and getting contracts signed, researching equipment needs, shooting the hard stuff, coordinating everything...and this guy had NO idea how to use this marantz.  Luckily the DJ is willing to help him and they are reading the freakin manual together!  I'm SLIGHTLY aggravated, so I leave the area and start shooting the room, the food, the center pieces, the card tables...etc.

So, at this point, I'm hurting bad.  I can't carry this glidecam anymore, and I go handheld.  Not to mention, I can't balance the glidecam with the light mounted and a 970 sony battery  Undecided

I go handheld for introductions, and my partner gets a tripod'd view.  We get it all and run 10w lights on each at about 10db gain. (no idea if it's right, but on the LCD it looks ok....I know that's not a gaurantee, but this is what these first events are for...to learn right  Lips sealed )

So, we go through that, and they go straight to cutting cake.  I get the cake cutting...my partner tripod'd again.  Then comes speaches.  My partner tripods and I am handheld getting multiple angles.  My partner tripods about 15 feet from the table, with the dance floor between him and the party.  I am handheld moving around, and I figure he's got the safe shot.  So I get closeups for emotion, then move, then move.  Well, while I'm moving, I see his camera unmanned.  I continue to move, but notice the photog is right in front of his camera....and he's nowhere!

At this point I start safe shooting handheld and don't move.  Just my luck, the 2nd best man is funny as hell, and while I try not to laugh, I probably have shake.  Well, the speaches end, and there appears my partner from the floor like two tables back from his camera.  He's furious and says, "well, kiss that f*ckin shot goodbye, because the photographer stood in front of my camera!".  Well, I am NOT HAPPY.  I very calmly say, well, why the hell didn't you move it!  He says, people wanted to see the speech, and I was in their way.  I'm like, "well, if you want to stoop down do it, but move the freakin camera if it's blocked!!!!!"  So, that series of shots could be a problem...and I'm not happy about it.

So, from there dinner comes, and I'm exhausted.  The photogs, the dj, and my parner and I are at a table.  They complain about the food, complain about the drinks, complain about the lighting, complain about everything.  My partner and I just welcome the break and the opportunity to eat something.

So, from there the dancing starts...we get dual positions...me handheld, him tripoded high.  I avoid shooting in his direction to avoid the light...all seems well.  I get closeups, he gets the safe shot...that was the plan for the entire night, and we stick to it.

Well, about 9:30 rolls around and the photogs are dipping out.  I've been around the bride and her people, and they are really warming up to me....to the point they are trying to make me dance with them...lol.  So, I hold the camera high as I can with the LCD turned down, and shoot down on them dancing.  They love it, and before I know it the grooms sister starts gettin up on me...lol.  I'm thinking, I'm outa here before someone gets pissed...plus she's hot and I'm gonna get in trouble.

So, at the brides request, she WANTS interviews.  She tells me to force them, drag them, I have permission..just MAKE them do it!  So my partner and I get everyone out in an opened area, and we get some GREAT interviews, plus since this is our first wedding, and technically we share an anniversary with these people, we decide to give them an anniversary surprise (like an easter egg they'll find later).  We get the whole wedding party to scream "Happy Anniversary.......NOT!"  The NOT part being the idea of a drunk maid of honor...but hey, she knows them well and they all agreed it'd be funny, so I'm sure they'll like it.  We're gonna use it in a creative way for an anniversary surprise when they sit down to watch their video next year.

Anyway, as the alcohol flows, I'm up in the dancing.  I have bridesmaids dancing in front of me, they form a soul train line with me in the middle and they are dancing down away from my cam.  They are having a ridiculously good time.  During this my partner comes up and says all these people came up to him outside and said we were the best videographers they'd ever seen  Roll Eyes  They say we made the wedding better for them because they were looking where we were, and that everyone was amazed how we were there, but not there.  We must've laid out 50 business cards, and they were all gone!  So, either we did something right, or we got lucky with a nice family.  Either way, it's an unexpected thing, and it was a nice surprise.

So, as things start to wrap up at 11:30, we catch some great stuff.  The groom loves michigan st. football, and the bride has the dj play the Ohio st buckeye song, and he's all mad...it was funny.  Then they play some country, they are hugging, the bride and groom are making out...people are screaming, and I'm thinking...NO photographer captures this kind of moment.  They are having a great time, and he's been gone for two hours.

So we are heading out and the bride and groom come over shaking our hands, hugging us.  The DJ takes a bunch of our cards and says he wants to work with us much more in the future.  He took alot of my music suggestions during the wedding, and he said they were so into it that they are gonna be part of his new playlist.

We walk away pretty happy.  I'm exhausted, but I'm amazed, as is my partner, at how much these people loved us  Huh .  We just did what we do, and acted like ourselves...but how were we so special to these people?  We were just ourselves in a young crowd, and something sold them all.  I'm thinking, are videographers in this town so bad that we're this freakin impressive?  Hey, might be good for us right!?

On the way home my partner apologized about the speech incident.  He said he realized he was wrong, and should've moved the camera.  So that's all fine. 

In a post check, the church cd audio turned out good, the minidisc turned out good, and the wireless mic turned out good.  So, so far so good!  #1 is out of the way, and now it's time to put these 20 freakin tapes into my pc!!!!!  Lips sealed

WHEW.....that was long, and I hope your still here.  I learned alot, and the biggest disappointment to me was the pre-wedding coverage.  I wanted those special dress shots, bride shots, and groom shots.  I'm really disappointed in that, but what to do when they are locked in this little terrible rooms?  I see some local guys demo's and they have demo's in these big grand churches...and of course they look good.  A BIG HUGE grand church just plain looks good on it's own, but how do you really make something great with a freakin bland bridal room? 

So, overall I'm gonna go on a limb and say this was about a 6 out of 10 performance.  I'm gonna do a set of highlights first and then I have to figure out where to serve it online so that it doesn't get destroyed, like on youtube.  Our site isn't up yet, so that's other stuff I...yes I, have to work on.

Alright...so let the comments flow!  Grin



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HankCastello
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2008, 05:00:08 PM »

Quote
Turns out the audio guy isn't showing up, and they are clueless to hook up the marantz.  They don't want to be bothered, but do say their system will burn a cd of all the church audio.  So I accept that offer, and with that figure, that's one backup down.

Heh heh!  The burned CD never works!  (Wrote this before reading rest of your message, thank goodness you got lucky here.)

Quote
So, at this point, I'm hurting bad.  I can't carry this glidecam anymore..

I was wondering when that was going to happen.  My arms would have gave out before the ceremony, and I'm in pretty good shape!

Quote
I go handheld for introductions, and my partner gets a tripod'd view...

Try a 3rd party shoulder mount.  Really helps with stability and relives the arms too. 

Quote
We get it all and run 10w lights on each at about 10db gain. (no idea if it's right, but on the LCD it looks ok...
Check previous posts/article on LCD adjustment.  You need to calibrate your LCD while hooked up to a calibrated TV and all cameras need to be set to same image.

Quote
the photog is right in front of his camera..

Static cameras seem to be "photog magnets"!

Quote
I very calmly say, well, why the hell didn't you move it!  He says, people wanted to see the speech, and I was in their way.  I'm like, "well, if you want to stoop down do it, but move the freakin camera if it's blocked!!!!!"  So, that series of shots could be a problem...and I'm not happy about it.
I'd be thinking just like you were!
Quote
I get closeups, he gets the safe shot...that was the plan for the entire night, and we stick to it.

Good plan.  To cover dancing, try 90 degrees off from each other.  This keeps you out of each other's shots while almost guaranteeing some "face" to one camera or the other.

Quote
Our site isn't up yet, so that's other stuff I...yes I, have to work on.
Look into Joomla! for your website.  Makes it easy (and free) to put up an impressive site that you can maintain without having to know a bunch of web stuff.  I'm a professional web developer and I've converted many of my sites (including this one) to Joomla!

Thanks for a great post and best of luck to you!  It seems like you're on the path to a great future.
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BillGrant
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2008, 05:15:05 PM »

damian,
Great post, really brings back alot of memories. But HOLY MOLY 20 TAPES!!! I mean wow! I had one in June that was 8 tapes and I was freaking over that. I had a major wedding on Saturday ($3800 is major for me) and came home with 5 tapes. Good luck with that, yikes! I run the whole day alone though, and only use multiple cameras during the ceremony. I do like you though and triple up on the audio stuff. At least you started out with the right stuff V2k is a great starter cam for weddings. It always amazes me at the people who thank you for doing a great job and they haven't seen one single image! I mean really. It sounds like you're doing alot of handheld work, you may want to look into a good monopod. I swear by mine, but it's not for everybody. The Vonlanken training DVDs on moving camera are also really helpful, not to mention their workshops. Looks like you really enjoyed the night, and once you have a few real problems and overcome them, you will be on your way! Good stuff, and thanks for posting.
Bill
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2008, 07:52:23 PM »

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HOLY MOLY 20 TAPES!!
Wow!  Yeah, I totally missed that.

We often shoot ceremonies with five cameras and we always use three cams for receptions (two manned and one on jib).  Thus all weddings tend to have five tapes: two with open/preps/ceremony and three with just ceremony (static cams). Catholic & Episcopal ceremonies get tapes just for the ceremony for all cams.  Then the reception will generally have one or two tapes from each manned camera and three from the static cam.
Therefore, the most tapes any wedding of ours will have is fourteen.  And remember - that's five cams on the ceremony and three on the reception.
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damian
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2008, 12:42:10 AM »

LOL....well, i guess we used alot of tapes...haha.

I guess I can clarify to some extent.  We didn't get 20 tapes actually...and they all weren't full.  We broke them down into sections, each getting one.  (1 each) pre ceremony, (2 each) Ceremony...catholic wedding, so we switched at communion to avoid running thin on the way out of the church, (1 each) photography session at west end overlook, (2 each) reception coverage...I actually used 3.  Then the third church camera used one.  Looks like it came out at 14.


We'd like to get a descent budget third camera.  Is there such a thing?  I understand that technically our vx2000's are budget, but they really aren't very detached from the 2100's.  I thought maybe there was a 3ccd camera that is known for being a good, yet affordable backup.

As a sort of update, I've gotten 5 of my tapes into premiere pro.  The footage is really solid overall.  The first minutes of the reception even came out well.  A tad grainy...a very little tad, but that was pre light, so I should be good.  I ended up mounting the light about 10 minutes in.

I just can imagine what a pain it's gonna be to synch all these clips.  Next wedding I'll know not to stop either cam during the ceremony, then it'll be easier to use the adobe pp multicam feature.  Next time I guess it has to be.

I'm gonna throw them together a trailer while they are on their honeymoon, and I'm gonna check out joomla right now in fact.
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2008, 10:03:16 AM »

We don't stop cameras during ceremony and we coordinate our starts and stops at receptions, tending to shoot long clips to lessen the synch work in post.

Synching in post is when your feelings about the photog start to change!  You'll love those flashes, but be very careful because they can be confusing.  Rather than relying on flash alone, look for unique movements to "rough synch" on, then use flash or eye-blinks to tighten up the synch.  To test, watch one video track with another's audio, making sure the lips synch.  If it looks right there, then it's right, regardless of where the flashes seem to synch.

Remember too, that while one or two cameras may "see" a particular flash, another camera (or cameras) may not see that flash at all due to the way their 1/30 shutter speed hits at a different time than the other camera(s).  It can be easy to mistake a guest's camera flash for the photog's in those cases, so watch for shadow angles, etc.
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2008, 11:00:41 AM »

Damian,

Your account of your first wedding was wonderful.  It sounds like you did a great job.  I hope my first paid wedding goes smoothly.  I am still in the process of buying all of my equipment.  I have my first free wedding scheduled for October.  I noticed you were talking about setting up lights.  Is lighting a must have?  I went with the Panasonic DVX110B hoping that I wouldn't have to do too much in the way of lighting.  I have been testing the camera outside at night with just the street lights and I am amazed at what type of picture I get.  Am I way off base not planning to buy lights yet?  The idea of a stedicam really interests me.  It is not in the budget to purchase one now but I like to dream.  What kind of glidecam do you have?  How much did it cost?  Also, if you have any suggestions for me on must have equipment or things to be aware of on my first wedding I would really appreciate it.     
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2008, 11:16:16 AM »

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I went with the Panasonic DVX110B hoping that I wouldn't have to do too much in the way of lighting.
Yes, you will need on-camera lighting for receptions.  20/40 watt switchables are a good choice.  Try to get light that uses same battery as your camera to avoid having to carry a heavy battery belt and the confusion of having to keep up with different batteries.  Sony VX2100/FX1 shooters have a great option here (posted elsewhere - I can't remember the light's model #).

Hold off on the Glidecam (around $350).  They take a LOT of practice and you'll have many other (basic) things to get down before you're ready to add to the complexity.
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Harley
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« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2008, 12:03:48 PM »

Yes, you will need on-camera lighting for receptions.  20/40 watt switchables are a good choice. 
I will definitely invest in a lighting unit.  The hunt continues. 
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BillGrant
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« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2008, 12:22:19 PM »

Harley,
I use the Canon Vl10i with the Canon A1, it shuold be plenty of light for a 100B. I have used it for years even with my VX2100s great light, and it's around 79 bucks give or take...
Bill
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damian
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« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2008, 12:34:09 PM »

Thanks for the tips Hank, I'll definitely use them.  The biggest lesson of this all may very well be not starting and stopping cam's at different times!  I'm definitely not looking forward to synching it all, but I'll get through it.

Harley, we both have those 10w/20w Sony lights that use the same batteries as the Sony VX2000/2100.  It definitely makes things nice and keeps everything just a little simpler.  Plus, I took them off of the shoe and used them by hand to direct the light like I needed it at a couple various times.

Hank is advising a bigger light, and he certainly knows better than I.  With the lights we have, the 20w setting seemed to clean up a shot of people 10-15ft away in a fairly wide angle.  You may go outside and feel your cam does well, but in low light your going to get a grainy look to the video.  Put it up on a full size tv and it's really noticeable.  Point is, you gotta have a light.

We personally didn't do any free weddings as first bookings.  We did discounted rates that were appealling.  That may not be for everyone, but I've shot alot of car shows, BMX stuff, and just various video, so I wasn't totally new to everything.  I felt like I could definitely put out a pretty presentable video, even if it was the first one.  Having looked at my captures into Adobe, I feel pretty confident so far, so it's something to think about.  

At least think about charging for cost.  The cost of tapes, gas, dvd's, etc.  Free is just too easy IMO.  I dont' do ANYTHING for free...lol.





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Jordan Berry
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« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2008, 08:54:55 PM »

Wow man, quite a good read you got there.

It's awesome you were able to keep everything under control and keep your partner in line.

I think we all can relate to not feeling important when the pictures are being taken.

I've been to quite a few weddings, and i've been to quite a few wedding shows. Like society, in the wedding industry you have a lot of unpersonable people, and rude people, and nasty people. I honestly believe that if you go into the wedding with a positive mindset you will be appreciated by someone. It's great you got along with everyone so well.

You're an inspiration to all us newcomers to wedding videography!
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damian
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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2008, 02:23:32 AM »

An inspiration...well, if I can just inspire my partner I'd be happy.  It's a lesson I learned 8 years ago, but looked past it in this case.  Still, the partner thing is hard for me, and it's a very tough situation.

I've gotten all of the footage from this wedding loaded, and I'm doing a "semi" rush demo for a couple of other people.  I'm running a 699.00 special for fall weddings, and booking dates super quickly.  I figure, with at least 10-12 weddings before December, I should have some good demo's compiled for the '09 season and the winter bridal shows.

I got alot of glidecam stuff that worked well for me.  I lost some quality in the reception though because I had no choice but to go handheld.  The glidecam simply whipped my a**, and I didn't have an arm left.  I REALLY am disappointed, because I had envisioned some awesome shots that I didn't get.  I did get a great glide into the church, along and around some people, towards the cake in the center of the dance floor, along the wedding party dinner table...all kinds of stuff.  I'm really very happy with it all overall.

I loaded all my stuff, then my partner came over for his session.  He's using the high end tripod with the fluid head.  I load all his pan shots, and photog session coverage and its jerky as ever WITH A $700 TRIPOD, no zoom!!  I ask, why is this so jerky man?  He says, well I left the handle in the car, and didnt know if I had time to get it  Shocked Huh  I'm like, so you shot an hour and ten minutes without it because you didn't know if you had two minutes to run and get it?  So, instead of losing two minutes of video, you captured an hour and twenty minutes of crap?

Am I frustrated...yes.  I broke my own rule, and took on a partner.  If I knew I was going to train him from the ground up, I'd have done it solo and paid a guy 10.00/hr to assist me.  There's gonna be tough talk tomorrow with him, and I'm offering a buyout on his equipment at the end of a probationary period that's gonna be my call in the end.  He can't edit, can't shoot, his marketing skills have been HIGHLY disappointing, and his goals are to be a budget videographer, while mine are to be one of the premiere guys period.

Anyway, sorry for the rant.  I've been on this for three days.  It's another of the MULTIPLE examples of why parterships are so rarely successful.  Especially being I've been a business owner for many years and he's not.  Alot of big decisions to make here in the next couple days. 
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HankCastello
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2008, 10:07:14 AM »

Oh, does this ever bring back memories!

Partnerships fail or succeed, pretty much the same way other relationships do - it's based on how much you're willing to overlook the other's short-comings, forgive and be patient.

I lack all of those qualities when it comes to business.  I think the only reason my wife and I are able to work together so well is that she is better than I am.
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damian
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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2008, 01:25:18 PM »

Yes, that's my exact fault as well.  I just don't have patience when it comes to common sense.  In addition, I just don't feel like he's pushed himself to get up to par.  Better to shut it down early though, than to be two years deep. 
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